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replied 1925d
anarchovegan
I am defending taxation as a whole, but each form of taxation has pros and cons. How taxes are collected is another issue. I dont like income tax, and see sales taxes as better.
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anarchovegan
replied 1925d
Why are you defending it as a whole?
Of course there are more and less painful ways of doing it.
The entire problem, is the how:
Systematic theft is immoral, unsustainable, and wrong.
replied 1925d
I have yet to see a reason why taxation is theft. I have explained why it is moral, so I have yet to see how it is immoral. There is no evidence it is unsustainable. Quite the opposite
anarchovegan
replied 1922d
How isn't taxation theft?
Could you explain again how it's moral?
What is the evidence that taxation is sustainable?
replied 1922d
I have participated in representative democracy myself, and cant help but see the pros outweigh the cons.
anarchovegan
replied 1921d
If I and others had the choice to not be included, there would be no problem.
The entire problem is that we are included involuntarily.
Kind of a huge con... game.
replied 1921d
I can see that point of view, but it is due to the way the society has built up over time. It gives the society ownership over that area. Almost like leaving to not pay rent.
anarchovegan
replied 1920d
Could you define "society" and explain what you mean by "built over time", that justifies systematic theft, "or leave"?
replied 1920d
Let's use city as society. Construction and establishment of systems take time and effort and money. If you dont like that established system then you should leave the system.
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anarchovegan
replied 1919d
The system of theft/taxation is worldwide.
Anywhere I go there will be the same system.
So that's beside the point.
But again: Why do the bullies get precedence?
replied 1919d
It isn't worldwide, just found all over the world. If you leave civilised areas no one bugs you about taxes. The precedence is due to a type of ownership. Property rights.
anarchovegan
replied 1914d
Property rights?
Oh come on now.
What homesteading does the state do?
anarchovegan
replied 1914d
What a misnomer.
Civilized like the indoctrination centers (schools) are called "education".
anarchovegan
replied 1919d
Could you define city? Are you saying city is people?
"It gives the society [city] ownership over that area."
How does a concept, city, have ownership over an area?
replied 1919d
Those representing the citizens of that city have control over the city, granted by the citizens. Telling the people and organizations and businesses to leave so you can stay is wrong.
anarchovegan
replied 1914d
I completely agree, which is why I am defending them against the state, a completely unnecessary parasite middleman that only contributes anti-life self-destructive brainwashing.
replied 1920d
It's harder to move the city than for a person to leave. So the person who doesnt want to pay should leave. That city didnt appear overnight.
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replied 1922d
To be clear I am not counting it high on the morality scale. It is just a general "hey, we are all paying our share. You should too." I cant help but think we benefit from government.
anarchovegan
replied 1921d
Where is the should?
I don't have a choice. If I did, then we could talk "should".
I'm stolen from regardless.
That's the problem to begin with.
replied 1921d
You kind of do have a choice. Black market incomes are not taxable. Some choose that route. Often just undocumented work, and pay under the table.
anarchovegan
replied 1920d
Yes, and why should I hide and be forced to go through hoops to be free, to act or feel like I'm guilty, when the entire system that you're advocating, is immoral?
replied 1920d
If people require the transit system to travel they realise they must pay. You then have riders asking why they should be stolen from simply to ride. The paying riders are stolen from.
anarchovegan
replied 1919d
If people require a transit system, then unless there's a monopoly on violence, there will be competing services/businesses to meet that demand.
replied 1920d
The system is moral. The only theft is from those not paying into the system. Like some public transit, paying is on the honor system. If no one paid the transit wouldnt work.
anarchovegan
replied 1919d
The system is immoral. The theft is from those who do not consent and are included anyway.
If payment was on the honor system, people would not be included without consent.
replied 1919d
The theft from the system is immoral. The theft is from those who contribute, while one decided to not contribute. It is leeching off others.
anarchovegan
replied 1914d
I wish I could "steal" by not contributing.
If I could I would not be talking about anarchism. It would be pointless.
replied 1922d
Taxation supports our system of government, and society. Every person receives the benefit of society when within society. Not paying your share while receiving the benefits is immoral
anarchovegan
replied 1921d
That was poorly phrased.
How is it immoral to resist the process of getting benefits when they are at the behest of theft, kidnapping, or murder?
replied 1921d
Resisting getting benefits means leaving the benefitted area. That isn't immoral. I feel like I am not fully getting the question.
anarchovegan
replied 1920d
Why do thieves and bullies get to lay claim to any area by providing something after theft? To justify that thieves and bullies stay while the abused leaves is morally abject.
anarchovegan
replied 1921d
The benefit of being stolen from under threat of kidnapping and if you resist, death?
How is resisting theft/kidnapping/murder immoral?
Can there be benefit if there is lack of choice?
replied 1921d
Those are quite the false equivalencies. The issue of jail itself is only for the most extreme cases. Often it is more like getting a bad credit rating, and debt collectors after you.
anarchovegan
replied 1920d
Could you explain this and give examples of "more like getting a bad credit rating" and "debt collectors after you" in regard to taxes? I haven't heard that before.
replied 1920d
That is the normal experience. I think the IRS is harsher than the Canadian CRA, but often they work as debt collectors instead as well.


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